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Post by hamsammich on Jul 4, 2015 0:58:16 GMT
M. Sors, et al:
First, thanks for the updates. They really add to the flying experience. Just one question: How can I remove back courses from ILSs? KJFK uses a identical frequencies for runways 31R and 13L, as well as 4R and 22R. In the real world they do not feature back courses, yet in P3D, they are turned on, creating chaos.
I've installed your fixes, but the problem persists. This is with FS Dreamteam's KJFK. Any suggestions for coping with the problem? I've opened the FSDT BGL in Airport Design Editor and unchecked the Uses Back Course box for each ILS. However it doesn't seem to take. I'm probably either using your product or ADE wrong. Can you or anyone here offer a step-by-step way of fixing this?
Thanks in advance!
Best,
Marshall
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Post by Herve Sors on Jul 4, 2015 7:33:38 GMT
Conflicting ILS backcourse can only be removed by editing the ILS data..either making or using a proper AFCAD/ADE replacement file (and if you have problems with ADE, I'll suggest you ask for support on their forum) www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/airport-design-editor.95/..or using my North America regional ILS updates that normally will take care of that. If not, let me know. Precisely, which updates did you install? Regards Hervé |
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Post by hamsammich on Jul 4, 2015 9:04:12 GMT
I did use your ILS update. But I'm afraid to no good luck. Your debugger shows the base area 302 ILSs and the FSDT ones in effect. Not sure how I can disable one or the other. And making it even stranger, I already edited the base BGL to remove the back course. Does P3D cache things and not let go?
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Post by Herve Sors on Jul 4, 2015 9:49:02 GMT
If you installed North America ILS Updates, KJFK ILSs are corrected (including backcourse conflicts). Check that your P3D folder
Sim path/scenery/0302/scenery/
contains the file APX28170.BGL dated 28-May-2015 (normally you will also have a backup of the original file -> APX28170.BGL.ILSBCKUP)
If this check is ok and you still have problems, the only explanation is that you have a 3rd party scenery with a higher priority that disables default sim data and provides its own. The debugger will tell you that.
However note that ILSs working on the same frequency may give wrong indications (even if backcourse is disabled) depending on approach sector..to correctly lock the proper ILS your approach should be done in the corresponding sector. In case it incorrectly locks on the other one, just temporarily change the frequency until you're properly positioned
There's no caching of navaid data. AFAIK they are automatically refreshed as soon as you make a change (the initial rebuild database screen)
Let me know
Regards
Hervé
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Post by hamsammich on Jul 4, 2015 17:58:15 GMT
Thanks for the information. Will make those checks. Glad to know your package is part of the solution, not the problem.
Marshall
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Post by hamsammich on Jul 4, 2015 20:38:11 GMT
Herve: Well, I figured out the problem, though I'm not sure there's a solution. Your BGL correctly removes the backcourse flag. Howvever, on closer inspection in ADE in Airport, not Approach mode--which enables you to see where, physically, the designers (MSFT? L-M?) have placed the localizers, I see an incredible glitch. Namely the localizer for 31R is on the approach end of 13L, and 13L is on the end of 31R! I-RTH is where I-TLK should be and vice versa. The same is true for 22R and 4L. It's as if someone was baffled by all the backcourses then just swapped runway ends to make it sort of work. Your fix eliminates the flags but, I presume, does not relocate localizers to proper runways if they've literally been 180 degrees misplaced. Being a stock airport, I have no idea if these mistakes can be corrected, either by you (and it's CERTIANLY not your problem, it's Prepar3d's) or by anyone outside the developer. I'd be interested to get your thoughts on the diagnosis and, if any, a treatment. Open the BGL in ADE, in Airport mode and see for yourself. I know just enough about this stuff now to be wrong about 85-percent of the time  www.dropbox.com/s/3yc8q11ia4ekg0w/APX28170.bgl?dl=0Marshall |
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Post by Herve Sors on Jul 4, 2015 21:03:48 GMT
I will have a look but don't trust ADE display for that!! since it always displays default data from an integrated "default" internal database and doesn't always take into account changes performed to stock files (the case here). The only valid test is to check ILS consistency within the simulator. [Later on] I just checked KJFK data as provided in my BGL update (that is the one I provide in my package dated 28-May-2015) with FSX Planner and everything appears OK. I also checked identifier and DME position consistency (not shown on the picture)  Please, only refer to the BGL file I provide (without any change) so as we can sort out any problem one could encounter. That's the only support I can provideFSX Planner directly extracts real BGL data and doesn't use any internal database www.zbluesoftware.com/fsxplanner/ |
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Post by hamsammich on Jul 4, 2015 21:52:26 GMT
Thanks so much for the investigative work. The next question is..... how to correct the FS Dream Team KJFK. It has its own BGL. Is there any way of incorporate your fixes with their version of the airport.
Marshall
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Post by Herve Sors on Jul 4, 2015 22:16:10 GMT
Ah! may be it's why you had some problems ;-) You may use my ILS Inspector and Editor program (no install needed)..normally it will give you the opportunity to edit all ILSs data and much more if needed. No tutorial but you'll see it is rather easy to use. It includes an up to date AIRAC ILS database www.aero.sors.fr/navaids.htmlFeel free to email me directly if you have problems and/or questions about it Hervé |
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Post by hamsammich on Jul 4, 2015 22:28:30 GMT
Herve, you are making my independence day happier-- much as your ancestors did for General Washington! Will check it out and report back tomorrow.
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Post by Herve Sors on Jul 4, 2015 22:44:51 GMT
>>Herve, you are making my independence day happier-- much as your ancestors did for General Washington!<<
LOL..
At this stage, feel free to use my email as needed: hsors(at)hotmail(dot).com
Have a nice week end.
Hervé
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Post by Mats on Oct 2, 2019 16:18:46 GMT
Hi
I just found your airport & Inspector tool.
The reason is that I discovered that my FSX (no steam) approaches to KLAX was not working properly.
They use 4 frequences/station-id:s for the 8 ILS approaches, but 4/8 doesn't work as those 4 pick up the "other" approach for that frequency and offers a backcourse approach.
I updated my BGL files for the 4 runways that doesn't works and gave them a separate frequency. Now everything works, thanks. At least until the Add-on for KLAX (FSDT) will have an update and the BGL file I assume will be overwritten.
Do you have any input to this, suggestions, experience, another solution?
Regards
Mats
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Post by Herve Sors on Oct 2, 2019 19:00:51 GMT
Hi Mats,
>>They use 4 frequences/station-id:s for the 8 ILS approaches, but 4/8 doesn't work as those 4 pick up the "other" approach for that frequency and offers a backcourse approach.<<
It is a common problem on many runways that are served by ILSs that work on the same frequency on both sides
In real life, depending on the runway in use, the opposite ILS is electronically disabled. Unfortunately it cannot be applied in the sim
The only "partial" solutions in the simulator are:
- to ensure the backcourse flags are disabled for both,
- to select/tune ILS frequency on the NAV box only when on the approach path cone; in such a case, the correct ILS should activate
Of course, you may also decide to change the frequencies as you did, but it is a bit less realistic
Regards
Hervé
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Post by Mats on Oct 2, 2019 21:17:05 GMT
Hi
Thanks for this
"to ensure the backcourse flags are disabled for both,"
And there is a checkbox in the ILS editor which then should be unchecked for every runway then I guess
Mats
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Post by Herve Sors on Oct 3, 2019 5:28:18 GMT
Hi Mats
>>And there is a checkbox in the ILS editor which then should be unchecked for every runway then I guess<<
Yes. I cannot make a picture at this time but it is on the top/right part of the ILS Edition window and labelled as "bc" (Back course status)
Uncheck it for both ILSs that work on the same frequency on a single runway
However, from my experience and some reports I had, it doesn't always prevent acquiring the wrong ILS. The most important seems to be the geographic sector you are when you first select the ILS frequency. Give it a try
Hervé
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