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Post by abax2000 on May 27, 2013 13:31:15 GMT
All the best for the new forum. I have been using Herve's work for sometime now, so it is about time for a big "thank you". As years go by, it is not only interesting, it has become an important maintenance tool to keep FS alive. I will lay down some points, in order to understand better and use more efficiently the supplied tools. Please answer the questions (ending with ?  ), and just comment with a yes or no to the others (just to affirm that I have got it right): 1. All navaids have their own magvar defined in their properties and this is used for any in-sim calculation, and not the magvars in the magdec.bgl. 2. ILS in particular also use the embedded magvar. In an older discussion in fsdevelopers I was told that ILS use magdec.bgl, but now I understand from Herve's work that ILS use the embedded one. Is that right? 3. Herve's "Navaid Update" updates all navaid to their current calibration values (to the best of author's knowledge), meaning that there can be discrepancies from real 2010 or current 2013 values, but it is the same discrepancies a real pilot would confront. ILS's get updated by this package only for France, Switzerland, Belgium and Luxembourg. 4. "EasyNavs" can edit navaids included in bgl files (stock or in addons bgl's), but there is another step involved (recompiling the produced xml) which is not integrated in the tool. "EasyNavs" do not recognize ILS's. 5. The "BGL Navaids Direct Editor" edits all navaids (including ILS), produces readily usable bgl files (no other step involved), but does not analyse addon bgl's. 6. "ILS Inspector" looks only for ILS in bgl's, but does analyse addon bgl's. It is not an editing tool, just analyser. 7. "BGL Magnetic Variation Corrector" analyses and edits everything (stock and addon), but only magvars (no other attributes) and this to 2010 values (no user choice). 8. As I understand, if "Navaid Update" is used there is no reason to mess with any other tool/editing as everything has been taken care for, except ILS. 9. What would be the best tool/method to use to correct ILS ? Would this be the same for stock and addons? 10. Whatever editing possible by Herve's tools, has the same limitations (e.g. deleting not being possible, moving by more than a little etc) as in ADE? 11. It is very frequent that PAPI's and ILS's need updating (because they were wrong in the first place or because they have changed since FS release). What would be the method to correct these in the original bgl's (in order to avoid the clutter and the magnitude of the "Addon Scenery" folder) ? Just as a footnote, it would be great (wishlist) to have a manual for EasyNav and the included tools. |
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Post by Herve Sors on May 27, 2013 17:25:32 GMT
Quite a lot of questions indeed
That's true. But the purpose is different. Navaid calibrated magnetic variation is of special importance for properly following a published magnetic radial from/to a VOR-NDB (that is for a VOR, ensuring we are on the selected OBS value when the needle is centered and on the published track). The navaid MV will be used here. A correct "Global" magvar will also permit the magnetic course you read on your heading indicator is the same..
No. That's only true for the map display in FS (and may be also the GPS, that will show the correct ILS course only if the ILS magvar is properly defined). ILS centering while flying the ILS only depends on the fact you are or not aligned on the localizer that is defined as a TRUE course in the sim. Again a correct global magvar will just make the displayed aircraft heading is that of the published ILS (at least if you are correctly centered on the ILS). That's a common misconception ;-)
Yes navaid updates are set to their published station declinations (at least VOR, VORDME and NDB, not DME and TACANS that do not provide azimuth information) and there is indeed some calibrated values that have not been updated since some years and are far from 2010 values; it is in particular the case in the Western US and may be in other parts of the world but you are right: it is the real way we should do that for getting the same information we have while flying in real..
ILS corrections I provide only cover Western Europe (all countries) for FS9 and France, Switzerland, Belgium and Luxembourg for FSX
BGL compilation is indeed integrated in EasyNavs as far as you provide the path of the FS BGL compiler (either FS9 and/or FSX) in the "Options" of the software. Then the Export menus will first build the XML and then automatically compile it to a BGL. It will also show the result of the compilation (at least if you enabled the "Always Show Compilation Report" option..in case you do not, the report will only show if an error occurred)
The "BGL Navaids Direct Editor" is able to edit all navaids whether or not they are included in "stock" MS files or other 3rd party sceneries (if you know or can find in which BGL they are)
It is indeed just an analyzer (no edition). But, it is able to analyse ILS records in any BGL file (MS or addons)
True..but from now, I don't think this tool should be used anymore (and I will surely remove it soon or later). Navaids magnetic variations should be set to calibrated values, not 2010 values. The same is true for ILs. Waypoint magnetic variations (as defined in BGLs) are not of any use in the SIM. And I don't know what is the effect of changing airport magnetic variations
Correct..
Depends on the correction you have to perform. Usually there's several (localizer position, localizer course according to rwy true heading, frequency, range, beam width, glide slope position and pitch, associated DME, etc)
In case there is no change in the ILS type (that is LOC, ILS or ILSDME), the BGL Navaids Direct Editor can be used, since the record length will not change and all fields are directly re writable. Otherwise the only way is (i) either to decompile the BGL, rewrite the ILS specifications and recompile if you are at ease with the XML syntax (ii) or use the available airport editors
Depends on which editing tool you're talking about..cannot answer this one without an example of what you want to do
See (9). PAPIs are not covered here. Most have been corrected in France only in the updates I provide..as well as Rwy markings (Europe for FS9, above mentioned countries for FSX)
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Post by abax2000 on May 27, 2013 20:34:10 GMT
Herve,
a big thank you again for sharing your knowledge.
Out of respect of your effort here, I will first digest the info you provided and experiment a little and then come back with any questions (if any).
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Post by abax2001 on May 28, 2013 8:52:23 GMT
Quite a lot of questions indeed No. That's only true for the map display in FS (and may be also the GPS, that will show the correct ILS course only if the ILS magvar is properly defined). ILS centering while flying the ILS only depends on the fact you are or not aligned on the localizer that is defined as a TRUE course in the sim. Again a correct global magvar will just make the displayed aircraft heading is that of the published ILS (at least if you are correctly centered on the ILS). That's a common misconception ;-) Of course you are right, I got confused. I tried out an addon bgl with the following results: "EasyNAvs" read it ok (bgl produced as asvertised). "Direct BGL Editor" gives a message "Unable to analyse - Invalid file structure" "ILS Inspector" gives a message "This bgl file does not contain any ILS record" "BGL Magnetic Variation Corrector" reads the file and also recognises the ILS. This is valuable info. So, in case that ILS type must be altered, how a stock bgl can be decompiled and recompiled? (if this can be done, the clutter in Addon folder is avoided, at least in the cases you only need to update the ils, or even correctly position the papi's) Let's take as example repositioning a VOR (to its true location, assuming that FSX has it wrong). In ADE there is a limitation on how far it can be moved from the original position (and you can find it only by experimentation). Is this still true? Second example (very usual), Can you delete an obsolete VOR? I suppose you meant to write "Most ILS's have been corrected in France...". How the runway markings have been corrected directly in the sock bgl's? Is there any way to control the exact placement of runway markings (editing stock bgl's or using semi-automatic tools lie ADE - I exclude major designing like using GMax etc)? |
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Post by Herve Sors on May 28, 2013 12:54:08 GMT
EasyNavs only reads VOR and NDBs..so I'm not surprised. Clearly something is wrong in the way ILSs have been defined/coded in the file you checked (unless I have a bug in the Direct BGL Editor AND the ILS Inspector..could be) Could you send me (privately) the BGL file that raises this error? Several decompilers are available..probably one of the most up to date for FS9 and FSX is Bgl2xml (latest version 1.50) provided by ScruffyDuck (the author of ADE) www.scruffyduck.org.uk/filemanager/navega.php?PHPSESSID=24970bcaec9d253d3504b48bcdcb3820&dir=.%2FScruffyDuck%20UtilitiesRecompilation is done with the MS bgl compiler Re-positioning a VOR can be done: - Either with Direct BGL Editor (one step) - Or (AT THE CONDITION THE BGL ONLY CONTAINS VORs and NDBs, the case for the default NV*.BGL files in FS but usually not for 3rd party BGLs) by extracting with EasyNavs, making the corrections and recompiling the BGL (from EasyNavs) Deleting an obsolete VOR can only be done by decompilation/recompilation of the BGL For FS9 ALL ILSs in Western Europe are corrected. For FSX ALL ILSs in France, Belgium, Luxembourg and Switzerland are corrected Runway marking characteristics can only be modified by either decompiling or using ADE Runway threshold marks cannot be moved. It's just an ON/OFF setting. Several other marks can be set to TRUE/FALSE only. See the BGLcomp SDK Hope it will help |
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Post by abax2001 on May 28, 2013 15:41:17 GMT
Re-positioning a VOR can be done: - Either with Direct BGL Editor (one step) - Or (AT THE CONDITION THE BGL ONLY CONTAINS VORs and NDBs, the case for the default NV*.BGL files in FS but usually not for 3rd party BGLs) by extracting with EasyNavs, making the corrections and recompiling the BGL (from EasyNavs) Deleting an obsolete VOR can only be done by decompilation/recompilation of the BGL As for the deletion scenario, does this (decompilation/recompilation) mean that Direct BGL Editor can also be used? Herve, mille mercis pour une autre fois.
File sent by pm.
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Post by Herve Sors on May 28, 2013 18:58:29 GMT
No it can't. Direct BGL editor can only change a record, not remove it
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Post by abax2000 on May 28, 2013 20:17:13 GMT
Copy that. Final note  : the replacement magdec.bgl has the 1/1/2010 magvars. In rl the magvars are 2013, which means that pilots flying today see some discrepancies relative to their maps (which contain 2010 data). Should n't we have a also a yearly update of the magdec.bgl (so currently we should use the 2013 data) ? I think it should be available at least for the crazy ones  |
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Post by Herve Sors on May 28, 2013 22:43:47 GMT
Unless magnetic variation changes make that published procedures are outside of the tolerance, magnetic variations are not updated on an annual basis but more often on a 5-year basis, at least in most countries and due to the high volume of updates. At this time most of them still use the 2010 values (they used the 2005 values until 2009 and sometimes later on!). And FS has only one file for that ;-)
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Post by abax2000 on May 28, 2013 23:40:00 GMT
I meant that the magdec file replicates "mother nature" in FS. So now as we speak the real life magvar is this of 2013; current charts use the 2010 magvar alright. But if you go out with a compass and a GPS you will see some discrepancies from these maps.
I assume that aviators do see these small discrepancies as time go by (from 1/1/2010 till now).
On the other hand, usually topographic and marine charts note the yearly rate of change (e.g. 2010 3E, 0.15deg/yr) so is easy to calculate the real current magvar.
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Post by Herve Sors on May 29, 2013 7:18:53 GMT
You're right. Will consider providing a 2013 file. There's no problem to build it from the IGRF-11 model the same way I did for the 2010 provided file
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), and just comment with a yes or no to the others (just to affirm that I have got it right):
: the replacement magdec.bgl has the 1/1/2010 magvars. In rl the magvars are 2013, which means that pilots flying today see some discrepancies relative to their maps (which contain 2010 data). Should n't we have a also a yearly update of the magdec.bgl (so currently we should use the 2013 data) ? I think it should be available at least for the crazy ones 